Obviously I couldn't (ever) afford to buy a Gibson (http://www.gear4music.com/Gibson/Les-Paul-Guitar.html), so was looking for alternatives. Seen it so many times lately, get a Vintage V100 (https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Vintage-V100-Reissued-Tobacco-Sunburst/83P) instead of a Epiphone. Some say the vintage has better build quality than the Epiphone (http://www.gear4music.com/Electric_Guitars/Epiphone_Electric.html), some say it's poorly put together with screws in the wrong sized holes etc, but the overall finish is better.
I'm still thinking in terms of Value for money, sound from the Wilkinson hardware and electronics, and looks, the Vintage still comes out top.
So, a couple of questions: Anyone had any experience of these guitars, and which one would you recommend and why??
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Don't know about the Vintage, other than what I have read (I did consider one), but I do have a recently acquired Epiphone Prophecy Les Paul Custom GX (http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Les-Paul/Prophecy-Les-Paul-Custom-Plus-GX.aspx) in Black Cherry (following a visit from the birthday fairy and saving up for the best part of a year). Oddly it was 20% less expensive here than in the UK (less in Euros than in £s), otherwise I would have gone for the Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus Pro.
The finish on the Prophecy is beautiful for the price. There are a couple of tiny, and I mean tiny, details that are not quite right, but I had to look really hard to find them. Obviously I spent some time setting it up to the way I wanted it, but it was fine out of the box even if the strings were not quite up to it. I have changed them for 010 Ernie Balls, but I will change them again to d'Addarios because my Harley Benton LP copy has those and I prefer them.
Which brings me to a Les Paul recommendation. My Prophecy is quite wonderful in my eyes, I'm a sucker for good looks and it plays beautifully and as the adverts say it has a fast neck. But, and it is a big but, I also really like my Harley Benton 450 (http://www.thomann.de/fr/harley_benton_hbl_450_plus_vb.htm) despite the dodgy finish in places and the bit of resoldering I had to do when I first got it. It too has Wilkinson pickups, looks a million dollars (if you don't look too closely), plays well, has a big fat sound and the longest sustain of all of the guitars I have. It has a set neck, solid mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fingerboard. All in all it bats well above its price bracket. Until I got the Prophecy it was the guitar I played most often. It's so cheap that you'll have loads left over for a decent amplifier too!
Have you looked at a Chapman from Andertons? Possibly a bit metal?
The upshot is that lower priced guitars these days are generally extremely well made and even if the QC is a bit lacking from time to time the underlying products are better than ever. So I'm sure whichever one you go for you'll be more than chuffed with it.
Quote from: Hinfrance on July 14, 2013, 05:02:53 PMThe upshot is that lower priced guitars these days are generally extremely well made and even if the QC is a bit lacking from time to time the underlying products are better than ever. So I'm sure whichever one you go for you'll be more than chuffed with it.
I have to say I agree with this. I also have a couple of Epi's (Although not an LP) and I swear by them, rather than at them.
The only way you are going to know for sure is to play the guitars though. Even if you then buy one online go and find a shop and get some wood in your hands!
That certainly sounds good Mick. I'm still going to keep my view that the Epiphone Prophecy is excellent value for money, but for a whole lot less one of the Thomann Harley Benton 450 or 500 ranges are hard to beat. They have excellent Wilkinson pickups and just play so well. I have a Honey Burst 450L. And I can't play anything like the guy in this video - probably never will - hey ho!
Quote from: Hinfrance on December 09, 2013, 01:54:25 PM
That certainly sounds good Mick. I'm still going to keep my view that the Epiphone Prophecy is excellent value for money, but for a whole lot less one of the Thomann Harley Benton 450 or 500 ranges are hard to beat. They have excellent Wilkinson pickups and just play so well. I have a Honey Burst 450L. And I can't play anything like the guy in this video - probably never will - hey ho!
Howard, I must say those Harley Benton's look really nice actually. They seem awfully cheap (pricewise) though. Does that reflect in the build quality in your opinion? And what's the difference between the 450 and 500 just out of interest?
You're right Mick the prices seem incredible. Obviously they are Chinese made, and yes, mine does have a few small cosmetic flaws. But the sound is stunningly good as is the playability, after set up, which you realistically have to do with any guitar you don't get from a music shop. I have also changed the strings on mine to my favourite brand.
The difference between the 450 Plus (the 'plus' is important) and the 500 is the gold plated hardware on the latter, and the body wood. The 450 Plus is all mahogany and the 500 is lime body and mahogany neck. Both have set necks. The 450 without the 'plus' also has a lime body.
I've had a few students using the Vintage, including adults who could easily afford an Epiphone. I have a lovely Epi LP, and it's my pride and joy!! Having said that, it doesn't produce every sound I'm looking for... Also, the Vintages are great, affordable instruments which deserve to be taken seriously-they certainly encourage more new players to get started. I'd encourage anyone to try one!! 8)
Definitely worth trying some out if you can. LPs have a very distinct sound from the mahogany and the humbuckers. If you need a huge variety of sounds then get a couple of the more decent cheapies - yes I recommend the Wilkinson equiped HB 450L Plus for the Les Paul choice on a small budget - but you will also 'need' a single coil equiped Squier Strat (the Affinity* range seem to be currently made in Indonesia and are well made, but forget trying to use the cheap trem, just screw the bridge down) for those more jangly American sounds. I replaced the HSS scratch plate on my Strat with a 3 Wilkinson 'hot' single coil set, about £25 on ebay if I recall correctly. Very distinctive sound, harsh and dirty, not achievable with a Les Paul, which always sound smoother.
And yes, my Epi Les Paul Prophesy GX is my pride and joy guitar too ;)
*I've seen these second hand in the cash converters shop for less than £70.
Quote from: Hinfrance on August 21, 2014, 07:37:40 AM
And yes, my Epi Les Paul Prophesy GX is my pride and joy guitar too ;)
*I've seen these second hand in the cash converters shop for less than £70.
I'll be checking out the S/H market when the time comes. Very soon I hope.
On my shortlist so far, I have.
Epiphone Prophecy Les Paul Custom Plus GX
Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus
Epiphone Les Paul Standard PlusTop PRO
Vintage V100
Haven't got a clue what amp to go for yet. Call me indecisive. :D
Definitely going for the Les Paul then Mick. I'm sure you'd be more than happy with any of those on your list. LATER: Forgot to say Mick - coil tapping. On the Prophesy this is a very effective way of altering the sound of the guitar on the cleaner sounds. Could save you having to by a Strat copy too. ;) Do any of the other guitars on your list have coil tapping?
As for amplifiers. I've tried a good few out in the music shop, mostly modelling amps because the Valve amp I would like is a) the size of a goat and b) weighs about the same as a small car - THIS (http://www.thomann.de/gb/bugera_333212_infinium.htm).
Anyway, I digress. The modelling amps are all pretty much of a muchness, just down to personal preference. I went for the Mustang 3 for a number of reasons:
1) Huge variety of sounds
2) F me it's loud
3) Fender Fuse
4) Easy to customise sounds either on the amp itself or via Fuse when plugged into the PC (more parameters are available)
5) Weighs about the same as bunch of bananas
6) IMHO really good VFM
I'm actually just about to trade my Mk1 in for a Mk2 as I want the DI outs for recording (the Fender ASIO is a customised version of ASIO4All and doesn't work with my set up) and the additional amp models. I'm just mucking about really, but I enjoy myself. ;D
As you know I picked up a Roland D60 for a song, fantastic clean sound, but the way the effects work (still the same in the Cube XL range) is not helpful - you can only have two at a time and they are global. The Peavey Vipers, Vox and Line 6s also sound very good. Just a matter of taste. Whatever you settle on, be it a solid state, modelling or otherwise, or a valve beastie I'm sure you'll have loads of fun.
Quote from: Hinfrance on August 27, 2014, 08:16:14 AM
coil tapping. On the Prophesy this is a very effective way of altering the sound of the guitar on the cleaner sounds. Could save you having to by a Strat copy too. ;) Do any of the other guitars on your list have coil tapping?
Howard, the Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus does have coil tapping, it's around the same price as the Prophecy tbh. And also comes with a Gibson hard case. Here's the spec.
SPECIFICATIONS
Body Material = mahogany
Top Material = Carved Hard maple
Neck = mahogany
Neck Options = 1960s SlimTaperâ,,¢
Neck Joint = Vintage “Deep Set†glued-in
Dimensions = 24.75†scale
Nut width = 1.68â€
Fingerboard = rosewood with pearloid trapezoid inlays with 22 medium jumbo frets
Fingerboard radius = 12â€
Pickups = Gibson USA ’57 Classic Humbucker 4-wire (neck) and Gibson USA ’57 Classic Plus Humbucker, 4-wire (bridge)
Controls = Switchcraft 3-way pickup selector, Neck Pickup Volume, Bridge Pickup Volume, Neck Pickup Tone (push/pull/series parallel), Bridge Pickup Tone (push/pull/series parallel)
Binding = Fingerboard 1 ply, cream
Bridge = Locktone Tune-o-maticâ,,¢/Stopbar
Hardware = Nickel
Machine Heads = Grover® Locking Rotomatic 106 Series 18:1 Tuners
Compared to the Prophecy GX
SPECIFICATIONS
Body = Mahogany
Top = Quilt Maple
Neck = Mahogany
Neck Shape = SpeedTaperâ,,¢ D-Profile Satin Finish
Neck Joint = Glued-in set neck
Scale = 24.75"
Frets = 24, jumbo
Fingerboard = Rosewood
Fingerboard Radius = 14"
Binding Mother of pearl stickpin on headstock face
Mother of pearl and abalone block and triangle on 1,3,5,7,9,12, & 15th fret
Mother of pearl blocks on 17, 19, 21, and 24th fret
Nut Width =1.68
Nut = Material Graphite
Machine Heads = Grover® 14:1
Neck Pickup = Gibson USA 490R humbucker
Bridge Pickup = Gibson USA 498T humbucker
Controls = 1-neck volume with push/pull coil tapping
1-neck tone
1-bridge volume with push/pull coil tapping
1-bridg tone
Pickup selector = Epiphone all-metal 3-way toggle
Knobs = Metal barrel with mother of pearl inlaid tops
Bridge = LockToneâ,,¢ Tune-o-matic
Tailpiece = LockToneâ,,¢ Stopbar
Output jack = Epiphone Exclusive non-rotating heavy duty output jack
Straplocks = Epiphone exclusive
As for the amp, I haven't given up on the mustang idea, just need to check out all the options. Not sure if I want to go all valve with pedals, or get a modelling amp, atm. I'll try some out. ;)
That LP Tribute looks very tasty. You've given yourself a difficult choice. I think that I would still go with the Prophesy because the 2 octave neck makes it a bit easier to play up the 'dusty end'. But I'd be happy with either :tup:
Quote from: Hinfrance on August 27, 2014, 08:21:37 PM
That LP Tribute looks very tasty. You've given yourself a difficult choice. I think that I would still go with the Prophesy because the 2 octave neck makes it a bit easier to play up the 'dusty end'. But I'd be happy with either :tup:
OK H, you talked me into it. Mine's a Black Cherry one though, or it should be when it arrives. 8)
Mine's Black Cherry too. Oooh, twinnies!
I'm sure you'll be in the clouds when it turns up. The hard case should keep it in perfect condition through the mail.
Quote from: Hinfrance on August 30, 2014, 02:21:02 PM
Mine's Black Cherry too. Oooh, twinnies!
I'm sure you'll be in the clouds when it turns up. The hard case should keep it in perfect condition through the mail.
Thanks, I'm itching to get my hands on it now. :) The Black cherry looks lovely imo, I really didn't like the look of the Cherry Sunburst for some reason, it doesn't do it for me at all.
Did you put straplocks on yours? (I'm sure it doesn't have them as standard).
Evening Mick. The Prophesy comes with Epiphone straplocks in the accessory pack. But I haven't fitted them, I use the Dunlop (http://www.thomann.de/gb/dunlop_straplok_ergo_lok.htm) plastic ones.
Has it turned up yet Mick?
Quote from: Hinfrance on September 05, 2014, 06:56:10 AM
Has it turned up yet Mick?
Howard, yes it did, but first one had to go back due to a broken selector switch lever. Also Harley Benton L-450Plus Honey Burst arrived from Thomann this morning. Guess what, it's got a broken selector switch. I'll post back later when I've got some more info on this one.
Gut wrenching for you Mick. Makes you wonder what the heck the carriers do to these packages - the Prophesy has its own hard case too . .
Quote from: Hinfrance on September 05, 2014, 09:08:48 AM
Gut wrenching for you Mick. Makes you wonder what the heck the carriers do to these packages - the Prophesy has its own hard case too . .
To be fair, the first epi came in a box within a box which didn't show any signs of damage, other than a slight crumple in each corner. There was no packing between the boxes at all. but like you said it has a nice hard case, so not sure how it was damaged. I have a gut feeling there's more to it than just courier damage, but that's another story. The packaging for my replacement epi was no worse, and it arrived in one peice. By the way I got them to send me a Heritage Cherry Sunburst one this time, and must say I like it a lot, looks much better than it does in the photos imo. 8)
The Harley Benton L-450Plus Honey Burst arrived with absolutely no damage to the boxes, and was stuffed tight with giant bubble packing between edges of the two boxes. Unfortunately this doesn't offer much protection if for example the box is laid flat, and other stuff chucked on top of it, then the first thing that's going to get crushed is the switch. When I first looked at the switch I could just see what looks like a short internally threaded toggle, with nothing screw into it. (Aha, I thought), I just need to find the knob and screw it on.
Hunted around and found it rolling around in the box inside a piece of round polystyrene packing, but there was a plastic knob with a bit of brass in the end of it, but not enough thread to screw in. And on taking a closer look at the switch, it's been pushed inwards, and the toggle all slopping about all over the place. :'( TBH, would be nice if they could just send me the switch, then I'd be quite happy to fit it myself, I doubt they'll let me do this though.
Thomann emailed me back today, and are requesting photos of the packaging, and the damage to the guitar, so in their words "We will then be able to have this situation checked for you". Is this normal procedure for them?
That all said, and after having a good look over the L-450Plus, I must say I'm really impressed with the build quality and finish of this guitar, it's a gorgeous looking beast.
Morning Mick,
Firstly, really sorry to hear about your problems.
As for Thomann's normal return procedure - yes they do ask for photos of the packaging and the damage before authorising a refund or replacement order. They will then email you a pdf with the prepaid return label and packing instructions.
Next up, in answer to the question would they just send you another switch to solder in? The answer might very well be yes. My 450L arrived with some broken connections on the three way switch and I spoke the service department who agreed to allow me to fix it without invalidating the warranty. So it would be worth giving them a call to see if they can do something similar for you.
Glad to hear that the replacement Epi is OK, and I'm sure it does look wonderful - it seems to be the case that they look a lot better in the flesh.
Quote from: Hinfrance on September 06, 2014, 07:46:33 AM
Next up, in answer to the question would they just send you another switch to solder in? The answer might very well be yes. My 450L arrived with some broken connections on the three way switch and I spoke the service department who agreed to allow me to fix it without invalidating the warranty. So it would be worth giving them a call to see if they can do something similar for you.
Got another email from them yesterday, giving me several options to resolve this. One being them sending me a switch and me fitting it. Or send replacement / or refund. I have opted for them sending a switch in the post. Thought that would be the safer bet as the rest of the guitar is, good, and if they send me another one it could turn up in bits after the journey via courier.
Hope there's enough wire in the switch cavity to make the repair easily, I haven't looked in there yet. ;)
I had no problems resoldering mine Mick, so I reckon you'll be OK.
How's the Prophesy working out? Have you decided on an amp yet?
Quote from: Hinfrance on September 07, 2014, 12:41:53 PM
I had no problems resoldering mine Mick, so I reckon you'll be OK.
How's the Prophesy working out? Have you decided on an amp yet?
Thanks H. ;)
Not had much time to play yet, just checked it over, and plugged in to make sure it works is about all I've been able to do atm. Have got it out of the case to admire it a few times though, lol.. 8)
The amp, well I went down the same road as you again, and got myself a Mustang 3 v2, for when the neighbours are out. Or if they P me off, when they're in. :D And a THR10 for playing about without annoying anyone too much.
Actually, might need to rack your brains over the PC connection stuff. Now I'm aware I can download and install the Fender Fuse software, but do I need to install any drivers? Manual is a bit sparse on this side of things. I already have ASIO drivers installed for other things, but I see there's "Fender_Universal_ASIO_2_10_F_Win7" on their downloads page.
Hi Mick.
I've sent you a PM about the Fender stuff. You don't need any drivers - the Fuse software is the whole package.
So you got the little Yamaha too - are you going to give us a review?
Hope you find some time soon to get mean with the Mustang.
BTW, I sold my Roland - helped a bit towards the cost of the V2. So now I have two Mustangs. :tup:
Quote from: Hinfrance on September 09, 2014, 07:33:02 AM
Hi Mick.
I've sent you a PM about the Fender stuff. You don't need any drivers - the Fuse software is the whole package.
So you got the little Yamaha too - are you going to give us a review?
Hope you find some time soon to get mean with the Mustang.
BTW, I sold my Roland - helped a bit towards the cost of the V2. So now I have two Mustangs. :tup:
Thanks Howard, just read your PM. Cheers for the info. :tup: Yep, got the THR for a bit of quiet practice, and for the purpose of recording tbh. It sounds really nice, and is quite loud for a tiny amp. I'll hopefully get to play with the Mustang some time over the weekend.
So you now have both Mustangs v1 and v2. I'd be interested in the differences you encounter whilst comparing them. Perhaps a update to your Mustang review at some point. ;)